corn vs poison

[chelidon]

from my comment to another journal:

My own take on it is that there are only a handful of valid reasons to talk about someone (as opposed to talking to them directly) -- one is to a very few friends or confidants, asking for feedback and advice on a complex situation one is actively trying to resolve. This is hazardous, though, and takes care, as it can easily turn into gossip, depending on who those friends turn around and talk to, and it can rightfully be seen as spreading the seeds of gossip or trying to influence people to take sides if more than a very small number of people are consulted.

The second reason is broadcasting a warning. If I wanted to warn my community about a child molester in their midst, you can bet I'd spread that information far and wide. But that's only for very, very serious things, of genuine concern to the entire community, and I'd better be damn sure that the person I'm accusing is exactly what I say, otherwise it's pure slander.

Short of the rare occasion of legitimate warnings, spreading corn widely is almost always pure, simple vindictiveness, no matter what excuse, rationalization or justification is given.

I've come to change my terminology -- it's not corn, it's poison. Because that's the effect it has on people, on community. "Corn" is joking, fun, light-hearted, and can be community-building. When it's not for and about fun, it's pure poison. There are occasions when it's legitimate to use poison, such as getting rid of an immediate and serious threat. But in general, all that throwing poison around accomplishes is making the entire environment, and especially your local community, a much more toxic and less productive place for everyone. And that's a seriously unwise and terribly self-centered thing to do, methinks.

Comments

[christeos-pir.livejournal.com]

It's a tough one. When we had a major issue with one member -- and you know who I mean -- there was some question of the appropriateness of warning other local bodies about this person, should she decide to visit them. The advice I received from my superior was that it would not be appropriate. In retrospect, I'm not so sure that was the right advice, although as it turned out she did not pull her games at another LB... to my knowledge. However, at the time I was also under the impression that it was a "simple" case of a crime of passion, and didn't realize it was part and parcel of a sickness that expressed itself in other, more insidious, ways.

It's easy to see a difference between someone who has a history of rape, murder, etc. and someone who occasionally shows up drunk and spills things on the carpet. It's tougher to determine which side of the line someone is on who exhibits behavior that's not so extreme, especially when you yourself are on the receiving end and want to avoid vindictiveness (especially with a skilled manipulator who will portray any action by you as vindictiveness to everyone else -- "help, help, I'm being repressed!").

[kitten-goddess.livejournal.com]

It's also very difficult when the poisoner is personable and well-liked and the victim is someone who is abrasive and disliked by many in the community.

NO, this is NOT talking about anyone at all. Just an observation.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's very sad how some people are often quick to believe ill of someone who intimidates them, as though the gossip gives them insight into a person's weaknesses. I'm always a little impressed at how manipulators can tease out the pettiest in a group, using those underlying tensions to their own ends.

Then again, it does allow one to easily separate the wheat from the chaff, once the dust has settled.

[chelidon.livejournal.com]

Ah-yup. Self-centered drama queens (of whatever gender) can (and often will) create much harmful chaos ;> I learned a heck of a lot from said individual, however, and some of that has served me well in later years, and there are a number of good friends I either might not have met, or might not have become so close with (peers over glasses at thou) had we not gone through that little scenario(s) together. So, as always, living well...

[christeos-pir.livejournal.com]

Not denying the silver lining at all, which includes you and all of Casa Chaos as well as Sol. Just thinking about the issue of warnings, or corn, or poison, or one's duty to let others know about potential dangers.

[chelidon.livejournal.com]

I hear ya -- gray areas and all... I guess for me the the ethical question is whether and when to commit onself to being the one who goes out to warn others. If one has examined one's actual motives thoroughly, and has all one's ducks in a row to make absolutely sure the information one is spreading is completely accurate, it's a judgement call. Having just been on the other side of this one, as the target of an apparent vendetta which involved someone seemingly deliberately spreading misrepresentations, half-truths and outright lies (as well as the more normal, "this is my own truth and I'm sticking to it"), I'm a tad bit allergic right now to that ;>

But yes, there can be a perceived duty there to protect others from someone who is sensed as a threat to the group, particularly if you're an official or elder in a group. Again, care and intent are key, as well as perceptions of motivation. If you are perceived (right or wrong) as being on a personal crusade, it greatly lessens the impact of one's words.

[kitten-goddess.livejournal.com]

On a purely selfish note, the poisoner's reputation is poisoned as well. That is why talking about someone else behind their back is especially stupid on LJ. The victim can then hang the offender with hir own words.

[snakey.livejournal.com]

Totally with the corn v. poison. Corn is a sacred, versatile plant that feeds people, and is what I mean when I talk about sacred gossip. And then there's just plain poison.

[chelidon.livejournal.com]

Ah-yup. Precisely. I'm thinking there are a pretty fair number of us at this point who could use a little decontamination...corn-meal shower, anyone? ;>

[rainysummerday.livejournal.com]

Great perspective. I struggle with this, needing to vent or process, while wanting to be true to my path and not cause undue harm. I have to check myself on this on an ongoing basis. There are people who I feel have hurt me, or that just rub me wrong, but to be true I have to come forward and tell my friends that I don't want my experience to influence their experience they may have with said folks. This is hard, good work, and as a few other folks have said it's not always easy to see that line between what is truly harmful and what is just not for me.

[chelidon.livejournal.com]

Thanks, and I completely adore your icon!

[yezida.livejournal.com]

I still find it useful to ask "May I vent for a little bit?" As a matter of fact, I felt a need to do just that this morning. If my good friend says yes, I will. And I don't let it go on for too long. Then I stop, and make some comment about the state of all we humans in general. This makes it clear to me that I am not spreading gossip, nor am I trying to demonize the person/situation I'm venting about, rather - I am helping to lance a wound. Then I felt able to sit again, align again, center more clearly again.

Now, if I did this all the time, it would not be functional. I do it rarely, but sometimes we just need to vent a little. We can even say "don't share this please, I just need to get some feelings out into the air."

Just my thots of the day.

[chelidon.livejournal.com]

I like your way of putting it -- lancing a wound (or potential wound) -- versus spreading gossip/poison. Venting is part of being human, too, keeps stress from building too high to deal with, can avoid getting to a crisis state.

Seems to me that in your case it's a matter of clear intent, and following clearly thought-out and sensible ways of manifesting that intent. It's not about keeping everything inside, isolated, unable to share with others or get feedback. Gosh, we'd all bust if we had to keep everything to ourselves.

The Great Lie is "you are alone," and it's so very important at times to get clear external perspectives from a close, trusted source or two. Or, as you say, just to vent a bit -- not as a pattern, but carefully, intentionally. And it is also about taking care not to cause more damage than is healed, not to intentionally or carelessly spread speculation or untruth -- to vent with integrity, as it were :> "First, do no harm," and "an it harm none..."

[(Anonymous)]

there's a very silly part of me that reads things like this and (so embarrassingly childlike!) wonders whether this discussion is being held in some sort of kindly loose effort to give me, in particular, a chance to speak up and say my mind about it.

... then reality returns, and I remember (how ridiculous are such thoughts, among other things) ... so I sigh ... "far too little, way too late" ... and keep on walking: ghost of nothing going nowhere in particular for never any reason ever again.