three quotes
Dec. 12th, 2005 01:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chelidonThree quotes for your possible reading enjoyment...
#1 -- from a T-shirt I bought while on vacation last week:
"I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, keep me here."
#2 -- from a late-night dinner-table discussion, a small portion of which was about the (far too many) people we have all known who have used their choice of religious, spiritual or magickal path as a self-serving excuse to act in generally reprehensible ways:
"It is not necessary for your spiritual development to treat people like shit."
I think I may have to print that one on a T-shirt... I am reasonably certain that every person reading this post will have some idea what I mean. Further discussion later revolved around a chicken-and-egg question: whether people who naturally crap on other people as a part of who they are instinctively gravitate to religions and spiritual paths which can most easily justify that kind of behaviour, or whether certain forms of religion themselves actually encourage people to be selfish and treat others badly, or some combination of both. Personally, I think both, with a slight tilt to the former, because truly any belief system can be used or misused, and we seem to be such naturally rationalizing creatures, easily adapting our justifications to both dogmatic belief systems (for example, fundamentalist Christianity: "God/the Bible told me so,") and non-dogmatic beliefs (for example, Feri, Thelema or New Age: "I'm just being true to myself.") In other words, whether the "authority" is external or internal, people tend to use "it" (the authority) as an excuse/tool to avoid having to actually look directly at themselves and take real responsibility for their choices, actions, consequences and effects on others. And here I'm back to Ken Wilber (among others), positing that the core act of spiritual development in any system is to expand your consciousness, ego and deep identification with more and more of the "external" world (and those beings in it), rather than trying, say, to force your way to the center of the universe and impose your ego and its egoic needs onto all around you. The first route leads to compassion, transformation, and genuine enlargement/growth of the Self, and the other is just ego inflation and narcissism, actually retarding personal transformation and development. So anyway, I'd like to say that's the kind of stuff we always toss around at the table, but we spend a lot of time bitching about work, too ;>
#3 -- (a question, actually), from my son:
"Does Santa Claus bring presents to dead people?" Oi. ;> Good question. He's a sharp one, my Rebbi.
On the other hand, since he's already familiar with the general concept and magickal practice of Aspecting, the whole sticky deal of "is Santa Claus real?" or "is that the *real* Santa?" etc, is much simplified, as well as any moral conundrum about lying to him. He's totally down with the concept of various people wearing the red suit and so on as authentically aspecting the spirit of Santa Claus, though I suspect he still thinks there's also a real guy with a toy factory up there at the North Pole... (and just perhaps he's right ;>)
#1 -- from a T-shirt I bought while on vacation last week:
"I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, keep me here."
#2 -- from a late-night dinner-table discussion, a small portion of which was about the (far too many) people we have all known who have used their choice of religious, spiritual or magickal path as a self-serving excuse to act in generally reprehensible ways:
"It is not necessary for your spiritual development to treat people like shit."
I think I may have to print that one on a T-shirt... I am reasonably certain that every person reading this post will have some idea what I mean. Further discussion later revolved around a chicken-and-egg question: whether people who naturally crap on other people as a part of who they are instinctively gravitate to religions and spiritual paths which can most easily justify that kind of behaviour, or whether certain forms of religion themselves actually encourage people to be selfish and treat others badly, or some combination of both. Personally, I think both, with a slight tilt to the former, because truly any belief system can be used or misused, and we seem to be such naturally rationalizing creatures, easily adapting our justifications to both dogmatic belief systems (for example, fundamentalist Christianity: "God/the Bible told me so,") and non-dogmatic beliefs (for example, Feri, Thelema or New Age: "I'm just being true to myself.") In other words, whether the "authority" is external or internal, people tend to use "it" (the authority) as an excuse/tool to avoid having to actually look directly at themselves and take real responsibility for their choices, actions, consequences and effects on others. And here I'm back to Ken Wilber (among others), positing that the core act of spiritual development in any system is to expand your consciousness, ego and deep identification with more and more of the "external" world (and those beings in it), rather than trying, say, to force your way to the center of the universe and impose your ego and its egoic needs onto all around you. The first route leads to compassion, transformation, and genuine enlargement/growth of the Self, and the other is just ego inflation and narcissism, actually retarding personal transformation and development. So anyway, I'd like to say that's the kind of stuff we always toss around at the table, but we spend a lot of time bitching about work, too ;>
#3 -- (a question, actually), from my son:
"Does Santa Claus bring presents to dead people?" Oi. ;> Good question. He's a sharp one, my Rebbi.
On the other hand, since he's already familiar with the general concept and magickal practice of Aspecting, the whole sticky deal of "is Santa Claus real?" or "is that the *real* Santa?" etc, is much simplified, as well as any moral conundrum about lying to him. He's totally down with the concept of various people wearing the red suit and so on as authentically aspecting the spirit of Santa Claus, though I suspect he still thinks there's also a real guy with a toy factory up there at the North Pole... (and just perhaps he's right ;>)
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no subject
Date: 2005-12-12 08:06 pm (UTC)this one really made me laugh! though I would also rather like the second on a t-shirt!
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Date: 2005-12-12 08:51 pm (UTC)If I make up a T-shirt for the second quote, I will definitely give one to you!
no subject
Date: 2005-12-12 09:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-12 08:15 pm (UTC)People aspect this god. People aspect that god. Why do some people find it so damned hard to aspect a decent human being?
no subject
Date: 2005-12-12 08:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-12 08:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-12 09:40 pm (UTC)Too bad Brian and I never made it up for a visit while he was on this side of the country ... Forest could have got all the information on dead people he could ever possibly have wanted out of Brian. I think I'VE learned more about dead people in the past month than I ever thought possible, heh.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 04:29 pm (UTC)I'm sorry to have missed Brian while he was up, too. I'm figuring there may be another chance to meet him, though, somewhere along the road, eh? :> (and I'm happy to hear about your happiness!) That was a very busy period up here, I was bouncing all over the place, and I know Kelly was feeling rather stressed about needing a small space of peace and quiet in the house right around then, but I'd love to see you sometime soon if at all possible!
Brilliant stuff here...
Date: 2005-12-13 06:25 am (UTC)Glad you survived your sojourn to MouseTown, actually felt a little homesick for it the other day. However, it quickly passed (like a stone) and I'm back to what passes for normal. Must have been thinking about that wicked good Turkish restaurant up in Winter Park...
15" of snow in Concord Friday, most of it fell while I was at work. Beats the piss out of Florida any day!
LFoD,
Marc